When to spay?

dizzy

dizzy

Well-Known Member
In the not too distant future, I'm going to need to get Callie spayed. The breeder recommends waiting until after she's gone into heat once, the vet recommends doing it around 6 months. I had been going to wait, until I really started to think about it.

First off, there's the whole mess of her going into heat. It's been a long time since I had a dog in heat, and I can't say that I remember what all I had to deal with. And, I was much younger! I'm not sure if I'm really up to dealing w/it now.

Then, there's the neighbor's dog. I've posted about him B4. He's a huge, intact GSD. I'll admit to being afraid of him, and I'm not the only one. As far as I know, the owners have no plan on having him neutered and I don't know how much control they actually have over him when he's out running in the yard. I have this horrible vision of him coming over the fence and going for her.

So, right now, because of him, I'm leaning towards early-unless there's a real reason for waiting.
 
Dizzy I had Pye neutered at 6 months, I know that some breeders are saying to wait nowadays, that it's better for the pups bone development to wait. I think you should
plan it for when it's best for you. To tell you the truth, if I had the situation you have with a neighbors dog, I think I would also consider early myself.
 
I would take a different approach....I would pay the neighbors a courtesy visit and explain the situation to them and ask them to make sure that their dog does not get loose during her heat cycle. My perspective is that this situation has the potential to damage my dog's future well-being because of their choices. Then again, we live in the suburbs with a fenced in back yard where the number of loose dogs in the neighborhood in the last ten years can be counted on one hand and the owners were always right on their tracks trying to recover them. Waiting until after the first heat was Fi's breeder's recommendation also. I had never seen a dog in heat before since we always spayed and neutered quite early (6-9 months), so I had no idea what it involved. Fi did not like the little diapers at all. But in about 30 days it was all over. But you can be sure that I made darn sure that she had a visit to the vet's before her next heat cycle!
 
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Why do they recommend waiting? I want to do what's best for her, but at the same time, I don't want to get driven nuts, nor do I want to get mauled by the neighbor's dog!

As for the yard, this dog looks like he could STEP over the 4 ft. fence we have. And while the neighbors will put him in a pen w/6 ft. fencing at times, I don't trust him to stay in it. They put him in it when they're not home. And, they can't always control him.
 
The breeder talked about the role of hormones in bone development which made a lot of sense. I believe that this is one of the reason so many dogs that come from shelters have so, so many joint problems, early onset arthritis, etc. It could be that I am dead wrong and but I believe that the early spay neuter coupled with terrible gestational nutrition have far reaching consequences. Why do they stress nutrition so much with pregnant humans? I mean there are no guarantees---some are perfectly healthy but many people that I know who have adopted shelter dogs have had to cope with horrific health problems. It was the reason that I chose an intentionally bred dog to be my companion. So it followed that a woman (who worked for years in the health care field) that breeds English Cockers and has done so for many years would be way ahead of me on best practices on the raising of these terrific little dogs. She had a 15 year old and 10 year old dog on the premises that were her retired performance dogs....no limping, no stiff movement, no skin conditions, no digging at their ears....I watched them at length when she took us outside with all of her dogs....even the puppies. She had two performance dogs, 1 impulse buy from Sweden, one elderly liver roan and the two older gals plus 9 puppies. So I got to see what dogs bred by her at all stages of their lives would be like. It inspired confidence in me and I tried to follow her advice exactly.

I do agree that sometimes you have to make things fit into your life so concessions are necessary but in your shoes, I wouldn't give up on this without at least trying to open up a dialogue with your neighbors. You have already invested a lot of time and resources and spent the time and effort finding this little beauty....
 
I know in horses there's a big debate on when to geld them because of the problems many develop later in years w/their knees. But, that's only for males. They don't normally worry about the mares.

The vet warned me that waiting on spaying could mean a problem w/mammary gland cancer. That's what I eventually lost my last dog to, but she was also 12 at the time. It can be so confusing.
 
Same here...my vet urged me to spay after 9 months too....citing cancer as the reason. I had a huge internal struggle trying to come up with what would work best for me. When I told the vet what the breeder said, he poo-pooed the notion, saying that hormonal development was already at maturity--I think Fi was at 11 or 12 months old at the time. He also did not think much about running titers to establish immunity....he has a specific shot protocol that he likes to follow--I thought I was going to lose my vet---I would get dropped for non compliance from his patient roster (He was actually amazed at the results of the bloodwork--you could hear it in his voice when I spoke to him about it). In almost every situation, I always go with the vet's advice and I think twice (and carefully)about deviating from it. These people went to school for a lot of years to learn about this stuff and that is why I pay them the big bucks. My reasoning was that the breeder worked in the health care field and was able to discuss health related issues and was really up on it plus she had spent the better part of 3 decades breeding this specific kind of dog. Another time I deviated from it was about ear care based on advice I got here at this forum and to this day Fiona has no ear problems.
 
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When to spay is largely about risk/benefit ratio. Most vets argue that spaying before 1st heat virtually eliminates mammary cancer. humane societies also push for pediatric spay because it eliminates unwanted litters which is a HUGE problem in much of the country. otoh, I do think that spaying before full maturity has a effect. think of humans when women have a hysterectomy at a young age - it does often have an effect on bone density. So there is probably something said to wait a bit.

I personally believe the risk of bone issues vs mammary cancer in a smaller dog is probably fairly small. The risk of having a bitch in heat near a large poorly controlled dog without tall secure fencing would be much higher to me.

How close are you to these neighbors? would you be able to call each time before you take her out and make sure their dog is securely in the house? That seems like a royal PIA to do for 3weeks. I know you take her to the barn when you take care of your horse ..... are there intact dogs near there?

I'm very lucky that I live in an area where intact dogs are a rarity and loose dogs are virtually nonexistent so it was really a non issue when I had my unspayed doberman. I dont think I'd risk it in dizzy's case.

do you know how old dogs in this breeder's line are when they have their 1st cycle? maybe try to schedule it just before she turns that age?
 
I'm not close to them at all. It's mainly a matter of saying hi if I see them out. I have no phone number for them.

Other than a dog pen, they have no fence. My street is short and has just 4 houses on my side of the street. The neighbor w/the dog owns about 5 acres, and their driveway is almost as long as my street. I know 3 of the houses on my street have fenced in yards, not sure about the other.

The dog is a real pain. They put it out in the pen when they're not at home and it barks and barks and barks. They will let it loose if they're in the yard and if I'm in my backyard, I have the dog at the fence, barking. It has already gotten under the fence into another yard and went for that dog, a Pomeranian named Bear. Bear's owner looked out the window and saw the GSD w/Bear's head in its mouth! Fortunately, Bear was not injured. And that is why I'm afraid to have Callie come into heat. At the farm, it's not a problem. No one that comes to the farm has an intact male and she can't get out of my field-unless I leave a gate open. When I got into this field, I spent the money to get welded wire fencing to completely enclose my field to keep other animals out and keep my chickens in. And, other than cats, ducks, and a turkey, it works. The one boarder brings her 2 cattle dogs, and they have chased horses. I hate being at the farm. I want my own.
 
Those horses didn't take care of business? One of my sister's mare did when her son's Dobe thought it might be fun to chase the horses. The mare reached out with one of her rear legs as she was accelerating away at a trot and administered the old Double Tap on the Noggin. She clearly wasn't trying to kill the dog....just make a point. She never even missed a beat in her gait. The dog spent the next several minutes sneezing and clearing his sinuses...he never, ever chased the horses again, lol.
 
There are a couple that will go for dogs. In fact, I had to be careful around Licorice for a bit w/Callie. Licorice has gone for dogs B4, and I really didn't want a hurt, or even dead puppy. I still watch her, but she seems to be fine now.
 
Like you, I would never let Fi off leash around the horses. Fi is a legend in her own mind and I am afraid she would take it into her head to have a go at t them. I was dismayed that my nephew had so little regard for his dog that he didn't do something before it reached this point. Lucky for the dog it worked out okay.
 
Well, I should be able to wait now w/no problem. The neighbors are looking to get rid of their dog. The wife is not able to handle him. She gets pulled all over by him, and knocked around by him. I think she's afraid of him. While I feel bad for them, I'm glad for the rest of the neighborhood. I know hubby almost had a confrontation w/the wife. According to him, the dog was halfway over the fence. And, he yelled at the wife. I've never done that, nor would I. I try, as much as possible, to live at peace w/my neighbors. I would have handled it differently.
 
It's probably safer for the large dog to have a new family who can handle him. I'm glad for you Dizzy.
 
That is good news indeed! So many GSDs seem easily provoked and, from your description, this one seems pretty out of control.
 
dizzy said:
In the not too distant future, I'm going to need to get Callie spayed. The breeder recommends waiting until after she's gone into heat once, the vet recommends doing it around 6 months. I had been going to wait, until I really started to think about it.

First off, there's the whole mess of her going into heat. It's been a long time since I had a dog in heat, and I can't say that I remember what all I had to deal with. And, I was much younger! I'm not sure if I'm really up to dealing w/it now.

Then, there's the neighbor's dog. I've posted about him B4. He's a huge, intact GSD. I'll admit to being afraid of him, and I'm not the only one. As far as I know, the owners have no plan on having him neutered and I don't know how much control they actually have over him when he's out running in the yard. I have this horrible vision of him coming over the fence and going for her.

So, right now, because of him, I'm leaning towards early-unless there's a real reason for waiting.
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Hello,
My first bitch, Sophie, was spayed after her first season. My second bitch, Mollie, was spayed before. Whilst they were both fine, Mollie 'stole' socks and would protect them, sometimes quite aggressively. She would only ever relinquish them on payment of a substantial treat. I suppose they were her babies in a way hence her reluctance to part with them. Whilst this wasn't a great problem it might be worth discussing any possible 'mothering' issues with your vet.
Gwen
 
Update on the neighbor's dog. They no longer have him, and I feel bad for them. They got "rid" of him, but not the way I expected. But at the same time, it might have been for the best. I don't know all the details, but they put him down. Apparently, he went for a visitor. I know they were bit, don't know how badly they were hurt, but B4 having the police tell them they needed to put him down, they did it on their own.

This is their 2nd GSD that they lost. The first got some kind of strange sickness, I don't recall now what all happened and they lost him. I liked that dog. I don't know if they plan to get another GSD or not.
 
That's horrible. I'm not fond of German shepherds after being bit by one but wouldn't wish that for any dog. I hope they don't get another one unless they plan on properly socializing him. It's painfully obvious living in a remote area is no excuse.
 
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