rescue Cloud on the horizon?

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Mark J

Senior Member
Owned by
Over 10 cockers
A heads up for those directly involved with organized Cocker rescue efforts, perhaps you are aware of these folks, C&J Cockers [Cindy and Joe Overlease] in the puppymill heartland of Missouri.

I peek in on them from time to time just to see what they're up to (fearful that they might get their hands on some ECS pups).

It appears that they have been caught by the bad economy flat-footed with an excess of puppies. ("adoptions" at SALE PRICES??!!)

available puppies

Something is up because I'm unable to get to their puppy page directly from the "front" of their website without identifying myself. Wondering if they're catching "heat" from authorities or AR orgs?
 
AHHHHH!!!! Those prices are less than some rescues. I clicked on your link, Mark, and was able to see the puppies. Lots and lots of pups with lots of different parents. What is the ACA?
 
ACA stands for American Canine Association which is another registry where a breeder can register dogs. AKC is the only registry that does kennel inspections.
I know the Overleases as they've been to some of the same dogshows I have. It looks like they've gotten in over their heads. I know recently within the last few months that there has been a raid both in Kansas and Missouri but at the moment I'm unsure who they were. I know Okie Dokie Cocker Rescue got 150 cockers from them.
 
What is the ACA?

www.acacanines.com

Registration = papers, right?

Toilet paper comes on rolls.

I clicked on "events", then past events, and the Canadian "French Ring" events link takes you to a porno link in (mostly) French.

It's a sham organization to mask how thick the scum is, but perhaps my judgement is too harsh.
 
Wow, there were over 76 puppies listed on that page, that does not include the older puppies on another page...no links to the parents that I could find. How do they take care of all of them? And a great deal of them were listed as Mini's...sheesh..how can you possibly keep them all clean and groomed let alone socialize them all.
 
I have seen ads for C&J Cockers for years. When I saw where they were it screamed "puppy mill" for me and kept looking.
 
Wow I can't believe how many puppies and older dogs they have.

What is going on that they are getting rid of all of these? Do they have a bad reputation?

I don't know that much about them.
 
Puppy Guarantee
Each puppy from C & J Cocker's is guaranteed to be in perfect health upon arrival. C&J Cocker's are free of any genetic disorders as reported to us. We have no record of Hip, Eye (Blindness), Blood disorders, Kidney failures, Liver problems, Ear loss (deafness), Hernias, or other issues that may be related to genetic disorders.


Is the reason that they don't have record of the above issues because they don't do the testing?? That would make sense as to why they don't have the the records of any genetic issues.. They just sound wrong....
 
Yep, pretty tough to have records of illnesses if people don't do any health testing. I would NEVER buy from a breeder that says they've never dealt with health issues. Nobody is untouched by them . . . it's how a person handles them that makes them responsible or not.
 
Thanks for your Concern

Hi.. I was noticing there were a few comments on the size of our offerings as of late. Yikes we do have far to many puppies than we would like to have.

No we are not in trouble in anyway. Rest assured our babies are all played with each day and everyone is getting their exercise and runs in the fields ..
We have two hundred acres here to run the pups and we love taking twenty at a time for a three or four miles hunt. If you have not done this before with your pups you really need to... They love it and it is great to be out in nature with these wonderful dogs. (Show coated dogs.. not a good idea. lol)

Someone wondered how we kept them clean, if you have not been here and by the way you guys are welcome to come for a visit if you like anytime. Our state of the art facilities are large and spacious and by design the runs are maintained in perfect condition each and every day, each run is power-washed by one of our full time men that all they do is clean and disinfect the kennels, runs exercise area, nursery, grooming facility etc.

The dogs are groomed by our full time AKC CERTIFIED GROOMER, she has a full time job keeping everyone bathed and groomed in a C&J Kennel cut, Kinda of like a puppy show cut.

Our Nursery Manager along with Edin, Kirk and Charlie, bath clean feed and play with the puppies everyday... One of the best jobs in the world as far as I am concerned.

Some made mention of the ACA opposed to the AKC.. As President of the Professional Kennel Club of Missouri, and director of the Missouri Pet Breeders Association, I feel strongly against organizations that have been working with the HSUS to deny you your rights to have and own a Cocker Spaniel. (There is a lot more to go into here, but basically I don't like sinking ships, the AKC registration is off over 75% year to date and it keeps getting worse. The ACA has been in business for more than 95 years AKC 120 or so. and they file their stud book with the library of Congress, I think the AKC stopped doing that. (Oh, if you want to register a dog with the AKC, you can submit a picture and they will register it too....)

I was not aware of any Cocker Spaniel Kennel Raid in Missouri, after all Missouri unlike other state does inspect and enforce our State laws concerning kennels, we do have a few breeders that give dogs to rescues and then they in turn call them "Puppy Mills" which I think is completely unfair, besides if you advertised them as the quality dogs they actually are from the good breeders the rescues may actually get more money for them.

Someone called Missouri a Puppy Mill State.. This is a good time to discuss this too, a few facts about Missouri... Missouri was the first state to have an Animal Welfare Act.. and it was written and supported by the Missouri breeders.. Even the APHIS Dept is paid for entirely by the licensed kennels not one tax dollar is spent on this . In the design and development, Not one crazy AR person or AR organization participated or even offered to participate.

Kennel raids happen in Missouri because we (Missouri Breeders) insisted the bad guys be shut down and still do. Most rescues would not be in business today without the support of the Missouri Breeders in the first place. We wrote the laws and created the environment where the dogs could be offed a better home. This simple fact has been lost somewhere along the way, but, we still feel it is important the dog are cared for properly and the bad guys and those (dogs) needing help should have the resources available to them if needed. Another intersting point is one of the oldest "Stop Puppy Mill Organizations" was founded by the owner of the first kennel shut down by the State of Missouri.. Not very nice people would you not say?

I hope I have fairly answered all the questions. We are not a "Puppy Mill" and we are not in over our heads..

Those of you who are not familiar with our program I will outline it for you briefly.

1. Prospective owners are carefully screened, causes us to have too many dogs at times, but it is worth it for the safety and welfare of our puppies... because..

2. No matter where you live or the reason.. should you ever not be able to care or do not want to care for our puppies they are returned to us at our expense. C&J Cockers are all micro chipped and we are joint owners or our puppies for ever. If a C&J coker is ever in a rescue or a stinking filthy nasty shelter of any kind it is because they were lost or stolen.. and then we recove them ourselves. We rescued six adults last week alone.

No help from any rescues on the ground we went to TX, TN, Il and Georgia for these pups.


I think this pretty well says it all. if you have question Just call me

417-452-2781

Joe Overlease
C&J Cocker's
 
I have locked this thread to give us time to reflect. I thought it only fair allowing Mr. Overlease to present his point of view. MightyMee (Marilyn), please make sure you have taken the proper steps in resolving problems with your purchase including contacting your breeder before posting on our forum--I'm not saying you haven't. In the future, I would like members to not mention any names when it comes to purchasing issues. We will be glad to point you in the right direction in resolving your issues--names are not needed. Both of you are welcomed to our forum and we hope you will contribute to our community. :)
 
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