Shock collars,invisable fence??

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Newmommie

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1 cocker
I know this will bring alot of conflicting replies. Our cocker ,Buttons, keeps making messes in the house. I take her outside every HOUR to do her thing. She goes on 2 long walks everyday. There is no way to predict when she needs to "go". Some days she is fine,other days she has peed on the sofa cover,pooped in the bathroom or a hallway that is not in my sight.

My housemate is getting a shock collar tomorrow. I'm totally against this! I have someone coming next week to give an estimate for a cyclone fence. There isn't a door in this house that can have a dog door installed.

Of course no way of knowing if she will continue the poopy behavior even with a fence or shock collar!

I'm trying my very best with this dog. But she's driving me to distraction! I'm here alone with her for the most part. Housemate doesn't follow my way of training.......he allows her to pull on the leash,he lets her off leash in the evenings & hopes she comes back! (so far of course she has but the bunnies are here now & all bets are off!)

I researched the breed before going to the shelter.I wish I had joined this forum (or lurked) prior to adopting her. I seem to have gotten one that is far from "sweet".

My cat has been hiding out for over a month now. I am planning on dog training & professional grooming in the near future. There has already been a considerable sum of money spent on this dog. And she's microchipped.

I've lived here over 10 yrs & we've had 3 dogs before Buttons. No other dog has ever been an issue with running off or not being housebroken. I admit I made a mistake in rushing to adopt her (however she would have been gone FAST if I hadn't been aggressive in getting her first).

My dog books & the research I did prior to adopting her never indicated the challenge she might be.

She bites,she chews anything she gets her mouth near,she doesn't obey "no" very well,she's the most stubborn dog I've ever encountered,she's aggressive towards the 120" mutt we have,she finds something everyday to "get" that she's knows isn't right......I have to tell her at least 3-4 times before she obeys me.

It's not all BAD. She sits before being fed or getting a treat. She reacts to "shhh",she goes into her crate well,she's a real comic at times,just watching her eat her kibbles brings a smile,and she is keeping the big dog company.She sits nicely for her ear meds (well one ear at a time that is), she stays in the sink when her feet get washed off,she tolerates combing OK.

I'm a wreck however! Mostly cause my housemate treats her differently & I see no solution to that issue,(he's 70 yr old & mentally ill). We got this dog for him,it was his terrier that had to go to the rainbow bridge over a year ago.

Sorry this is so long,I just don't know what to do. A shock collar seems cruel to me & no real solution to her "indoor" messes. I can't figure out a solution so I'm asking for some advise.

I thank you for any replies......and I ask that you be kind,I may have made a mistake but I truly had no idea what I was in for. She was a perfect angel @ the shelter & the vet,she can be sweet but with housemate finding all her bad behavior comical I'm rapidly losing my good humor......and I'm somewhat freaked out over the shock collar needless to say!
 
Ok, you want a shock collar for toilet training. What's the invisible fence for? I can think of good reasons for a shock collar...potty training isn't one of them. The shock collar is to discourage bad behavior. Going potty is a bodily function not a behavior. You'll probably cause more problems shocking her when she's trying to go potty. Also, you wouldn't want to shock her after the fact because she won't understand the association. Dogs usually look for a place to go right before they do. You should be looking for this behavior. As soon as you see this behavior take her to her potty area. You want her to associate going potty with her potty area. Just look for those cues. This is a puppy right? It might be you're not spending enough time with her. If you're taking her out every hour, how long do you keep her out? Walk her around outside--they love walks. I'd say if you walk her around for 15 min she should do something.

Look over the Housetraining Your Puppy handout from the DFL. I think the first sentence says a lot:
DFL said:
Housetraining a puppy requires time, vigilance, patience and commitment.
Click to expand...

EDIT: Since she's not a puppy anymore there's also steps to take with the aldult dog: Re-Housetraining Your Adult Dog
 
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Pati
I would never use a shock collar on my babies, I have seen times when they injure the dog that is wearing them. Also, I would never depend on an electric fence. What happens if the fence becomes defective or is turned off and your dogs get out of your yard?? Any dog can be trained, I think it's a matter of training people to train them correctly. I have had rescues for over 20 years and have not had problems housetrainig them, sometimes it starts out a little rough, but, with persistence and love, the dogs always learn.

I do hope your reconsider...
 
Hate shock collars. My daughter used one on her sister's GSD for barking. Burnt the dogs skin and coat badly. Thick coated dogs don't get the full effect of the shock apparently - at least on the bark collar. I like the crate way of training. Never used it before my current crop of pooches but now wish I had many years ago! I don't have anywhere I can put a doggie door either but even my 13.5 year old will not mess in his crate! Let him loose in the house and he will pee if I'm not here to take him out frequently. My neighbor survived the potty training by letting the dog out of the crate for longer and longer periods of time until she could trust her to be out all day. As for roomie letting her off-leash, have you considered temporary fencing? It's fairly reasonably priced at Home Depot and very easy to install.

Getting into things she's not supposed to? That is simply a Cocker Spaniel trait! I will never have toilet paper on the roller thingy like normal households. I will always have to hide trash cans in the cupboards. Having cockers in my life has taught me to put things away and never leave clothing on the floor or anywhere they can grab-and-go! Nothing more embarrassing than chasing a furry one around the backyard while he's waving the tidy-whities in his mouth! :naughty:
 
If I remember Buttons isn't a puppy but a rescue, right? However you still need to go back to puppy training 101. Until she fully "gets it" she needs to be either attached to you or crated whn in the house. Take her outside to have her potty. If she potties, she get playtime in the house supervised by you. If no potty, back into the crate and taken out later. When she does go potty outside an immediate treat and a happy dance. Riley was a rescue who was not housetrained and had probably never been in a house. At times I would dispare that he would never "get it" but he eventually did. A shock collar is not to be used for housebreaking a dog.
 
Also, while electric fences can be OK they wouldn't be my choice. The electric fence doesn't keep other things out. While in persuit of something, dogs can run right through the fence and then be afraid to come back in because of the shock they will get. Our neghbor's lab learned he just got a small shock so he just ignored it a ran around where ever he wanted.
 
I have to say, I don't understand the idea of using a shock collar for housetraining problems? If you catch your dog pottying in the house, your first step should be to interrupt them (call their name or make a noise) and to get them outside. If you were to zap them, I'd think that might make the issue worse. It would certainly make the dog afraid of pottying in front of you . . . and then you have a dog that hides their accidents and is afraid of you. Housetraining requires consistency . . . and it sounds like Buttons might be getting too much freedom when she's not ready for it.

If your housemate isn't using the same training methods as you, then I'd recommend having Buttons in a crate when you're not home. That way your housemate doesn't have to deal with her, and you can be comfortable knowing that your hard work isn't accidentally being undone by a well-meaning roommate.

As for Buttons, she needs to be treated like a brand new puppy. Any time a dog is added into a home, they need to be integrated into the household just like a puppy would be. That means back to crate training basics (I'll put up a post to that effect shortly), and NO freedom in the house unless she's earned it. In fact, I'd have her on a NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) program - http://www.k9deb.com has a good page on NILIF. That means any time she wants to play, get fed, have attention, etc, she has to do something for you first (sit, down, stay, etc). It just teaches her that you control the resources and that she has to respect your wishes.

When she's not in the crate, she should either be tethered to your waist by a leash (6 feet is the best length) or she should be blocked into a room with you where she has your attention. As soon as your attention drifts, that gives her the opportunity to have accidents.

If she's a rescue, you have NO idea how she was housetrained (or IF she was) before. Starting from square one gives you the chance to re-progam her, so to speak, and to get her back on track.
 
Thank you all for the replies. Manuel,it's not ME that intends to try a shock collar. I'd never use one of those myself.

Now I have some backup & I thank you all for that. Housemate knows I'm getting alot of info on this forum (he doesn't use a computer).

I did mention housemate is mentally ill,he doesn't think in a logical manner......

OK, I can see where I'm allowing Buttons too much freedom from her crate. She's been here 4 1/2 weeks now. I'd say 99% of that time she hasn't made any potty messes inside. I do praise her every single time she does #1 or #2. I do have an "area" and I tell her to go pee now,I say her name also. Most of the pooping is done away from the house on the long walks. I see now that if she fails to go on the walk I need to crate her & try again later.

I try very hard to stick to a schedule.I have never yelled at her or hit her. She knows when she's done something wrong (eating up her comb was yesterday's folly). I do my best to put things out of her reach.

I also think a child gate is a good idea for the hallway. Trash & toilet paper are out of reach. I'm with her all day unless it's a rare appointment or such. It's very quiet here & I can hear a pin drop for the most part (that's how I discovered the chewed up comb handle yesterday). I always anticipate trouble if I can't see her!

As for the invisable fence? Well I've seen first hand how well that works with the neighbor's dogs.......I'll be getting an estimate on a chain link fence next week. Meanwhile I will beg housemate to let me handle the situation,and do my best to keep him from using a shock collar.His mind doesn't function in reality so I'll just have to find a way to convince him to be more patient. Also whenever I'm not inside I'll keep her in her crate & hope he follows my directions to leave her be.

This is my first experience using a dog crate & I was thinking I didn't want her to resent it or feel she's being punished often. I'll change my thinking!

Thanks so much,I really appreciate the replies.
 
:-( now I'm worried that she's with a mentally unstable person... especially if he's suggested these cruel things
 

don't worry,I put a huge block on the idea of shock collar or invisable fence! We're trying to agree where a fence will go,there's an oil line & a power line in the yard & of course no schematic's (sp!) on just where those lines are.......

While I'm at it I'll ask if anyone has a cyclone fence & had it installed for approx. $2,000? We have to hire the labor. Approx. 100' of fencing w/a small gate & another gate large enough for the John Deere. I think a goat would be a good idea myself......

I need to point out that many people swear by shock collars,especially hunters. Housemate is 70yr old & I give him credit for spending alot of money over the years I've been here..... for dog grooming,vet care,etc. He grew up when dogs were left outside & fed table scraps afterall. Nobody had dog dental work done back then & seldom did anyone actually spend time searching for the right dog,they just waited for one to be dumped off in the country.
 
Using a shock collar to train a dog for hunting is different than using one to housetrain a dog . . . I think that's why folks here were so surprised to read your initial post.

Personally, I consider myself a positive trainer - I do use corrections, but in a very limited way. I find that my dogs that have been taught with a clicker and positive reinforcement (Grace & Jack Jack) have been able to learn more easily and more quickly than my "force" trained dog (Farley). Training is all about getting the dog to understand what you want, and that is always more easily done with good associations.

I'm glad that you've talked to your housemate and gotten him to agree on fencing. I think you'll be much happier with it in the long run.

Have you considered taking some obedience classes with Buttons? You may find that your bond improves and that her general behaviour improves if you give her some guidelines to adhere to during the day. Plus obedience really can be fun, with the right class. It's just an idea for you to consider.
 
I need to point out that many people swear by shock collars,especially hunters.

No, you didn't NEED to point that out at all. Is this little girl going to be HUNTING?
 
Newmommie said:
don't worry,I put a huge block on the idea of shock collar or invisable fence! We're trying to agree where a fence will go,there's an oil line & a power line in the yard & of course no schematic's (sp!) on just where those lines are.......

While I'm at it I'll ask if anyone has a cyclone fence & had it installed for approx. $2,000? We have to hire the labor. Approx. 100' of fencing w/a small gate & another gate large enough for the John Deere. I think a goat would be a good idea myself......

I need to point out that many people swear by shock collars,especially hunters. Housemate is 70yr old & I give him credit for spending alot of money over the years I've been here..... for dog grooming,vet care,etc. He grew up when dogs were left outside & fed table scraps afterall. Nobody had dog dental work done back then & seldom did anyone actually spend time searching for the right dog,they just waited for one to be dumped off in the country.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Pati, I still would'nt use shock collars on any of my dogs, I think they are cruel
 
Newmommie said:

don't worry,I put a huge block on the idea of shock collar or invisable fence!


I am glad to hear that. Cockers are very "soft" dogs and a shock collar could be devastating to the mental well being of Buttons.

We're trying to agree where a fence will go,there's an oil line & a power line in the yard & of course no schematic's (sp!) on just where those lines are

Since You are in Washington State and can call "dial Dig" to have the area marked for power, gas, electricity, cable and some water lines. Whoever is doing the digging needs to call, it is a free service.

I need to point out that many people swear by shock collars,especially hunters.

People do use shock collars for training their dogs but no one should be using a shock collar on any dog without the proper training. I have seen dogs that have been totally ruined by wrongly used collars. They mentally shut down and can become very untrustworthy. My uncle is a retired hunter and has had a couple of dogs that had to wear collars, he used them to call off the dogs when they would not back off a bear or mountain lion, to keep them from being mauled. But he also has 8 other dogs that respond to his vocal call offs and don't use collars. By the way he was employed by his state game department to track problem bears and mountain lions that had either injured live stock or people.
Click to expand...
 
I asked for opinions,I tried to make it clear I was totally against a shock collar. I wrote too much.....that's just my way. I appreciate all the positive replies & confirming my feelings against a shock collar. However I don't feel comfortable on this site so this will be my last post. I thank all of you that have provided information & tried to be encouraging.I believe every problem has a solution,so I'll just get on with it.....
 
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