This may be a stupid question...

sk8rchik13ny said:
I really do want the best for the cocker spaniel breed.I hope my future pups will be prooof of that.
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If you really want the best then PLEASE find a reputable AKC breeder that shows and has done the health testing. There are AKC dogs that are registered that are crap too but CKC pups are not worth the paper they're written on. Plus if you do the breeding correctly, it won't be a business as it is NOT profitable. You need to do research on pedigrees and see what is compatible with your female also. You'll need to wait until they are two years old to be able to certify the hips with OFA and CERF for the eyes is a yearly thing. When you show a dog, it's a competition for the best breeding stock. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to educate. There's a WHOLE lot more to it than just liking a dog and putting a male and female together.
With this litter your considering, the male and female most likely should not have been bred in the first place as there's a HIGH chance of having mismarks when you breed a solid to a parti. Then that travels down the lineage also. NOT A GOOD THING. If you want to do this right, PLEASE find someone reputeable and RUN don't walk from this litter. We all want to help you do it the right way if you've made up your mind to do this.
 
sk8rchik13ny said:
I understand where your coming from.The pups are CKC, not as highly recognized as AKC,but not poorly bred either.I didnt mean when I said the price is amazing,that I was gonna jump at the chance at a fairly cheap dog,just to breed to make a buck.I'm not that type of person.We bred years ago,had a legitimate business and were forced to downsize because of neighbors.We bred with champion lined dogs.I never shown but always wanted to.I really do want the best for the cocker spaniel breed.I hope my future pups will be prooof of that.
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This response is long, I’m sure you know much of what is in my post, and hopefully agree with it, but there are many others who come to the forun to read and learn about our breed, or might be thinking of getting a pet, so I am going to take this as an opportunity to help educate others.

Poorly bred does not just mean the conditions the dog is kept in, but the care, lineage and breeding practices that came before it.

If by CKC you are referring to the Canadian Kennel Club, then yes, they are well recognized for their breeding standards on par with the AKC. These registries, keep records of the lineage of your dog. Being AKC or Canadian Kennel Club registered, does not guarantee that your dog is of sound breeding stock – but does allow you a place to start to trace the reputation of the breeder and their dogs.

If however, you are referring to the "Continental Kennel Club," that is a whole different story. This is the way I, and many others, see The “Continental Kennel Club;” The "Continental Kennel Club” was started by puppy millers and BYBs when the AKC would not register their dogs. At that time, the millers and BYBs knew that the general public wouldn't understand the difference when they were told that their puppies are "registered and have papers." The "Continental Kennel Club" registry is a joke. Your female can be bred by many different males during one heat, and the "Continental Kennel Club" allows you to pick which male you want to name as the sire of the litter on your “Registry Papers” — no proof required at all. The true sire might not even be of the same breed – but that’s okay by them – their main goal is to make money and fool the public, not to abide by any ethical or sound breeding/ business practices.

It's been said, that as long as you pay your fee, you can register your fluffy bedroom slippers with the "Continental Kennel Club."

Responsible breeders have been known to sell puppies on a spay/neuter contract (a legal document) to buyers posing as someone wanting a family pet, only to find that these people lied and purchased with the intent to breed the "family pet." AKC will not register that dog or litter, but even when the "Continental Kennel Club" is aware of this deceptive practice, they, being equally unscrupulous, see no problem registering them! This is where “bred from Champion lines” comes into play when touted by some members of the Continental Kennel Club. Years ago, most people got their family dog from a Pet Shop, a friend or relative, or the guy down the street. Spay/neuter was not the norm. Veterinary care consisted or a rabies shot, if required by law. Hartz Mountain was the leader in pet care. Family dogs were routinely tied to trees in the back yard, or left free to roam or romp with the kids, and their lifespan was nowhere what it is today.

Thankfully, things are much different today, as people see the family dog as a member of the family. Veterinary care is costly, so people are starting to search out responsible breeders known for producing healthy puppies, with good temperaments. In this, the information age, the media has started to jump on the bandwagon, doing feature stories on the evil practices, by exposing BYBs, puppy mills and Pet Stores. The general public is no longer so easily fooled, and is slowly starting to know what red flags to look for when looking for a puppy, and what questions to ask.

It is expensive to be a responsible breeder, so the puppies from responsible breeders are going to cost a bit more to help recover some of the cost from showing (to be sure the dogs meet the breed standard), having the proper health testing done. Waiting until the dog is at least two years of age to be bred, and carefully matching the breeding pair, and not breeding on every heat cycle. Responsible breeders breed to better the breed. They follow their litters long after their puppies have gone to their new homes, and are willing to take back any puppy/dog they produced at any time. They are responsible for their breeding practices. There are very few responsible breeders, who will tell you they break even, let alone make money from breeding. Responsible breeders work hard to develop their line, so except on rare occasions, require spay/neuter contracts to protect what they worked so hard to produce. These are the breeders who deserve our support -- it is not the dogs that they produce that fill our shelters and rescues!

The only way to really make money breeding, or to offer a “cheap puppy,” is to cut back, or cut out health care for the puppies and parents, forgo health testing, breed underage dogs, and breed on every heat cycle, and have lots of dogs breeding all the time, or there is something wrong with the puppy the breeder isn't disclosing.

If you really want to get back into breeding, please do your homework and do it right by today’s standards and expectations. There are people here who will help and give you good, solid information. We don’t want to see you lumped in with the poor breeders. We sill have far too many out there hurting their dogs, viewing them as no more than stock, and hurting our breed in general. Until there are no more dogs in shelters and rescues, there is no need to breed less than the best.
 
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"Until there are no more dogs in shelters and rescues, there is no need to breed less than the best."

For me - that says it all. The rescue I volunteer for normally has over 100 dogs at any given time. Not all cockers but the majority are. It's too sad that perfectly good AKC registered pooches have no home as well as the ones maybe not so well bred. Personally I wish there was a moratorium on breeding until all the homeless have a home and then breeding should be restricted to the ones who take the time/money to make sure the testing is being done, etc. jmho
 
I definitely have to agree... I find males to be more affectionate and more loving... Not just when they want it, but when you want to cuddle and love and hold on tight.. My females... Only want to be loved on their terms. They are persnickety to say the least. I find that they really REALLY show affection, when they want something (like most kids).. Don't get me wrong, I love having my girls around... But, when I'm really feeling like crap, had a bad day, or just need some extra love from my dogs, the males hang around while the others turn up their nose and go about their business....
 
I love My little boy he is my lovey dovey cuddle monster!! He whines when I'm out of sight and will wake up and move spots with me if I get up! He sleeps with me all the time and I just Love him to pieces! I never thought I could love a Dog so much But I love him like he is my child!
 
Cindy and Robin you said it all!
Skater, I hope that if you decide to "get into breeding" again that you do it responsibly. Before you do, why not do some volunteer work for your local pound and see all the suffering little souls there.. Robin, who is a responsible show breeder, always has "rescues" that she is trying to place also. During this recessed economy, lots of wonderful dogs and cats are loosing their homes.
 
Robin & Cindy,

Thanks for such great, informative posts. My dearly departed Rascal was purchased from a puppy mill before I knew better. I like to thnk that I rescued her. If (that's a huge if) we should ever want a puppy, we have some great questions to ask the breeder. I think when we decided to add to our furry family, it will be a dog from a rescue.

Jo
 
candelwick said:
Robin & Cindy,

Thanks for such great, informative posts. My dearly departed Rascal was purchased from a puppy mill before I knew better. I like to thnk that I rescued her. If (that's a huge if) we should ever want a puppy, we have some great questions to ask the breeder. I think when we decided to add to our furry family, it will be a dog from a rescue.

Jo
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For those of you who don't know Jo very well, I want to re-introduce her. She and Terri have Cockers In Need angels, Maggie a beautiful brown cocker and Chrystal Blue a beautiful Cavi cocker mix.

Jo and I used to be WLVs on AOL, we co-hosted the weekly Pet Chat there :D
 
I appreciate all the informative response from everybody,i just joined this forum,and am sharing my personal life and feel hurt,like im being atttacked by everyone and seen as a scumbag because im deciding whether or not to breed.
 
I remember when you got both Maggie and Chrystal Blue, because I fell in love with both those dogs. Especially Chrystal, she is sooooo beautiful. How are they both doing, Jo?
 
sk8rchik13ny said:
I appreciate all the informative response from everybody,i just joined this forum,and am sharing my personal life and feel hurt,like im being atttacked by everyone and seen as a scumbag because im deciding whether or not to breed.
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I say there's no harm in asking questions. :thumbsup: Breeding is going to be a touchy topic since so many feel strongly about it one way or another. I think everyone has your best interest. I would encourage you to keep asking questions and read up as much as you can. Don't limit yourself to the Internet either. Check out books at your library too.
 
Don't get offended by our passion for the breed. Many people here are involved in rescue, so we've seen the repercussions of what bad (irresponsible) breeding can do. Some of us are breeders that have invested a lot of time and money into our Cockers, and so we have a feeling of ownership. In general, we tend to be suspicious of people that say that they want to breed . . . we can't help it :) We're just trying to educate and and ensure that new breeders do right by the breed.

There are lots of breed registries in North American - but the only ones that I would trust to register Cockers properly are the AKC (American Kennel Club) and the Canadian Kennel Club. APRI, the "other" CKC (Continental Kennel Club) and others are basically places that will register any animal as purebred, as long as you have the money to pay their fees.

A dog purchased for breeding should never be purchased as a bargain. A good breeder typically charges between $700-$1000 (depending on geography, etc) for a puppy, and they will screen the HECK out of potential homes to make sure their puppies are getting the best possible homes ever. Most breeders will request a co-ownership if you want to breed, so that they have some control over the breeding process. They may want you to have the puppy shown, either by yourself, them or a professional handler. Having a puppy show proves its merit as a Cocker Spaniel - if several judges agree, then the dog must be at least somewhat good ;) If not conformation, a breeder may want to see obedience, agility or other performance titles.

Health testing is crucial for breeding dogs. Cockers are plagued by many, many, many diseases, so it is important to test for whatever we can, and eliminate dogs that have diseases that can potentially be passed along to the babies. Eye exams need to be done annually (by a CERF certified eye vet), and also recommended are hip x-rays (through PennHip or OFA), thyroid testing (acceptable labs are listed at the OFA site), patella checks (OFA again) and von Willebrand testing (blood test). What breeders test for can vary, but hips and eyes are the absolute minimum. A breeder that says they've never had a health issue may never have done any testing . . . because everybody experiences some kind of problem at some point.

If you have more questions, ask away . . . we really are here to help. And we definitely don't want to chase you away!
 
KLADCkrs;31673 If you have more questions said:
Can anyone give me advice on how to prevent territorial male marking? i'm just going to leave the breeding issue on the back burner..and take manuels advice on research.
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Research is GOOD. Glad you'll stick around.
In my opinion, if you teach them when they're young and teach them it's a no-no and catch them in the act, it should help. The males I've had since pups that I've housebroken I've taught that way and not had a problem.
Now my Rescues are a whole different story. Most of them mark even after neutering and even when they do , my Hershey will not cover their scent up in the house.
 
sk8rchik13ny said:
I appreciate all the informative response from everybody,i just joined this forum,and am sharing my personal life and feel hurt,like im being atttacked by everyone and seen as a scumbag because im deciding whether or not to breed.
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I dont think it was anyone's intention to attack you personally, but the subject of breeding can invoke some strong emotional responses from some of us, myself included. I agree 100% with Robin. Leave it to the pros. Many of us, especially those who work with a rescue, have seen our share of cockers who've had MANY health problems. Most, I'm certain, have either come from the petstore/puppy mill connection, or BYB's. Just ask Linda. She's cared for many of the mill dogs. I've also had my share too. Before I knew any better, 3 of my own dogs... one of which was a rescue, either came from a petstore, or a BYB. ALL of them had health problems all of their lives. One died from cancer and he was only 5 years old. My other 2 both have and had the typical cocker problems that go with a poorly bred dog... meaning no testing on the parents was done beforehand. ALL had epilepsy, cherry eye, and heart problems amongst other issues. Every foster dog that has been here over the years has had health issues. EVERY one of them, and it is almost a 100% certainty that none of them were bred responsibly.
Add to the fact that there are already millions of dogs out there who are euthanized each year because they are not wanted, but the mills and the BYB's just keep churning them out anyway. We all know the mills are doing it for the buck. Lots of BYB's are doing it for the same reason. Some do it to show little Johnny the miracle of birth. Some do it because the pups will be so cute and be just like the momma, and the neighbors want a pup. WRONG reasons to breed! You dont sound like one of them, but as Manuel suggested, please learn everything needed to know to become a responsible breeder. It DOES make a big difference! And please do not take some of the responses as a personal attack. Just my .02
 
http://images.google.com/imgres?img.../american+cocker+mix+pup+pics&hl=en&sa=G&um=1

Its things like this that really bother ME!! As you can see,no respect for either breed,at least i love my breed.

And is it more likely for a neutered male to not mark,or will they do it anyways.

Also is it true that females mark,i thought i read in a magazine years ago that when they trail their pee(walk while peeing)thats how they do it?

Yes i do have lots of questions.ive been a dog owner since 14,but could always use the feedback.
 
Yep... these kinds of websites have a way of instantly raising the BP about 50 points
 
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